Step Inside The Colts' Draft Room With Chris Ballard

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On pro day and individual workouts for prospects, some of whom decide not to run multiple 40-yard dashes: “Understand this about the workouts, because they are important. Does everything matter? No, it doesn’t garner all, but it’s a piece of the puzzle that’s important. I mean, there’s certain numbers that players have hit for the last 30 years of their career — height, weight, speed, arm length, hand size; I mean, you have all this data from how many years of the Combine, and are there exceptions to the rule? Absolutely there are. But we’re going to try to decide on the side of not being an exception. We have bottom lines; and so there’s certain bottom lines athletically and speed-wise that once they (fail to) hit that parameter, they’ve got to move down. And I know Bill Polian was huge on that; that was a big Bill Polian thing. And everywhere I’ve been — Chicago and Kansas City — we’ve followed the same guidelines athletically for each position. But one of the hard things today is … like, when I first started scouting, man, I could get a guy to work out, it’d be two or three times, to get the number I wanted. Like Nathan Vasher; Nathan ran, what, 4.75 at the Combine? He ran 4.71 at his pro day, and I went back to Texas to clock him again, and I got him, I think, at 4.58, 4.59. I mean, I wanted to get the number right to make sure because I believed in the player. Well, nowadays, guys will run one time, and even if the time’s not good they won’t run again. And I’ve never understood — I mean, we’re gonna take your best effort. It’s like going to a track meet; we’re gonna take your best time.”


On how Ballard perceives a prospect who doesn’t run multiple 40-yard dashes: “I think it depends on how good the player is. So, if he’s a great player and he goes out and you know he’s fast and he rips off a 4.35, well, he rips off a 4.35. We know he can run. I will tell you this: I do get concerned when guys don’t run. Quenton (Nelson) didn’t run last year — different case; he’s a guard. If a defensive end, if an inside backer, if a corner, all of a sudden they don’t wanna run, there’s a flag that goes up in my head, ‘Why not? Why don’t you wanna run? Is there an injury concern that we’re missing here? Are we hiding something?’ It does; it becomes a concern if they don’t wanna run.”


On how Ballard views a prospect resting on his 40-yard dash time at the Combine: “Look: I would love to watch ‘em work out as many times as they can. But if they get good numbers at the Combine and they don’t (do certain drills at their pro day), I understand.”


On how Ballard knew on Nathan Vasher to re-test him in the 40-yard dash: “‘Cause he fit us schematically so well. His short shuttle was 3.98, his three-cone was in the 6.8s, I think he broke the University of Texas interception record. So everything was lining up for this kid to be a good player, except for one number: the 40 time. That’s why he fell to the fourth round. Going back, he’d had been a second-round pick if he had ran if he had ran a 4.5 at the Combine. And he ended up being a really good player for us in Chicago. But he fit schematically what we were looking for; he had instincts, ball skills and he would tackle. He was a perfect fit for what we wanted. I’ll never forget on draft day, we had like nine guys lined up, and he was ninth. And all of them stripped off (the board) and he was like the last name, and we just took him. Sometimes it just works out the way it’s supposed to work out.”


So if a guy doesn’t meet your measurables, he’s not necessarily undraftable, he just moves down your pecking order: “That’s right. The measurables kind of helps where you place (them) if they make the board. And then that tape will determine on how high they continue to go. So they’ve gotta get past these bottom lines to get up on that board. We don’t have many on our first through seventh round who lack the measurables that we want. Especially … I’ll give away for some height if they are exceptional athletically and speed-wise. They’ve gotta have a dominant trait if they’re small; so dominant athletic trait, dominant speed trait if they’re undersized. If they have all three, it’s great.”


On if there’s anybody Ballard has drafted with the Colts that didn’t meet the bottom line, and if a waiver pickup like cornerback Kenny Moore II would be one of those guys: “Kenny didn’t meet the height standard. No. I mean, we’ve told that story numerous times. It’d be two o’clock in the morning in here, and when you’re watching those (waivers) guys, now, that’s not like watching draft tape. You’re digging for a needle in the haystack on that claim day to try to claim players. So here I’m looking at the numbers, and I’m just looking at 5’9”, 185 pounds, and you’ve seen a good player on tape, but you’re saying, ‘5’9”, a dime a dozen.’ And I think it was Ed (Dodds) who said, ‘Look Chris, he’s got 32 1/2-inch arms; it equals out to be taller than what he is.’ And Kevin (Rogers) had been beating me up all night on him. Finally I just relented; I was like, ‘Just take him. … He’s better than what we got.’ And he ended up being a really good player. I mean, think about it: (Moore II) and Desir, both claim guys. When I was in Kansas City, Marcus Cooper … Jaye Howard … we claimed a safety too there that ended up playing for a long time for us in Kansas City; his name is slipping my mind right now … but they all played for us. So that can be a really good area if the pro scouts are really on it. And then what we do is we gather a group and then we watch them together. And then last year it was (Al-Quadin) Muhammad and our safety, Corey Moore, that we claimed.”


On if there was any thought as the first round of the draft moved along that the Colts should keep the 26th-overall pick instead of trading back: “Unless somebody really fell … Last year, we did it right, now. That high-end talent at the top (of the draft); I mean you’re getting (Leighton) Vander Esch and (Tremaine) Edmunds in the 15 to 20 range last year. I mean, those guys both would’ve been top-10 picks, easily, in this draft. But I just thought the depth for high-end talent dropped off pretty quickly in the first round.”


On if the high-end talent dropped off this year around pick 15 or so: “Yeah, and it really could’ve been more about (No.) 8 or 9. I tried to compare it to last year; I said, ‘OK, who would’ve been in the mix? Who would’ve been the guys in the mix?’”


On if the Colts were close to trading back again at No. 34: “Yeah, we had a couple offers. Good — it wasn’t blow-you-away, like, first-round pick next year. It wasn’t a blow-you-away offer, you know what I mean? Like, Washington (in the first round), I thought it was a good deal for us to be able to get a two for next year and continue to accumulate (draft stock). I mean, every year, I don’t care how good your team is, you’ve got to continue to fuel talent in. Well, the only way you’re gonna do that is with the number of picks you have, and unless you just know you’re getting a superstar, it’s rare for me to say we’re ever gonna move up — not saying we won’t do it — but in the first round, to really move up and get a guy, unless I just know we’re about to slap a grand slam out of the park, most of the time moving back and collecting picks, the talent level you can still get by moving back is not much different. And then you get to add multiple players, which I think we’ve got a chance to get two-for-one or three-for-one; that’s always a pretty good deal.”


On if Ballard believes a roster can be too young: “No. That’s a good point. I think we’ve got a good mix of vet players on the team. I think on defense our back end’s young, but (Clayton) Geathers is a vet — been here a long time; he’s played a lot of football. You look up front: Justin (Houston), (Jabaal) Sheard, (Margus) Hunt, (Denico) Autry are all vet players, and they all do things the right way. So the rest of the defense is really young — (Pierre) Desir’s played a lot of football. And then offensively with Andrew (Luck) and (Anthony) Castonzo and T.Y. (Hilton) and Jack Doyle and (Eric) Ebron — I mean, we’ve got enough vets on the team (that) I think helps balance it out. One of the great luck moves we made last year was signing Mike Mitchell. That stabilized us. His ability to come in and really teach the group the little details about being a pro — and he just did it with his actions and they just started following him, I mean, from the first day in there. It was really fun to watch. And then that group from last year was rare, you guys. I mean, the way they prepared — I mean, they were vets by mid-season; all of them, from Quenton (Nelson) to (Darius) Leonard to (Braden) Smith, I mean, you just go down the (list), (Nyheim) Hines, (Jordan) Wilkins, I mean that is a really good group, and they got a taste of what it takes to prepare, fail and then not quit on it and just keep working and getting better. So even though we’ve added this new lump of players, the majority of the roster has been through the run and has the experience of failing in this league, but also bouncing back and doing something really good. They understand the preparation and work ethic and practice and how to take care of yourself.”


On where Quincy Wilson would be today had the team not signed Mike Mitchell last year: “I don’t know if you could say he would fail, but Mike had a big influence on Quincy, in terms of … don’t worry about the noise. Just control what I can control. When you take a young player — Quincy was a prime example; we drafted him when he was 20 years old — who is coming out of that college as a big-time recruit, had success, they read social media, second-round pick, expectations are high, and then it doesn’t go the way you want it to go. And now you’re reading everything on social media, everybody’s killin’ ya — ‘Why aren’t you starting? Why aren’t you leading the league in picks? You should be First-Team All-Pro.’ I mean, sometimes the expectations that these kids put on themselves, and then they read that crap and listen to it. Mitchell helped calm his mind down. When y’all see him, look at his body, man. He’s changed his body. I mean, I think he came in at 214 pounds; he was 192, 193 the other day. He was 14 or 15 percent body fat; now he’s like 7. And Mitch had a great impact on him, just learning how to control what you can control.”


On the selection of Rock Ya-Sin pushing Quincy Wilson: “But isn’t that what makes players great? When they know they’ve gotta compete and earn and play. That’s when you know you’ve got a chance to be really good, ‘cause now the days at practice, if you take a day off? Somebody else is gonna play. I think when you really create really good competition on the roster, that’s when you’ve got a chance to be really (good); now you can’t step off your game. You’ve gotta be on it at all times.”


On if Ya-Sin and Wilson can complement each other, or if they’re too much alike: “You could probably say Desir is right in that mix, too. I mean, he’s a tall, long guy. I think they’re all tall, longer corners that they’ll all tackle, in our scheme of what we’re trying to ask our corners to do, they all fit it. And the thing that’s so strong with Quincy — and I even underestimated him coming out — I mean, really, he’s really football smart. Right now he’s playing five different spots back there. He’ll go corner, dime, nickel, a little bit of safety — he can do a lot of roles for you. He’s gonna compete to play corner, but on gameday he becomes very valuable, ‘cause he can go in and play man-to-man on tight ends — that’s why having all these longer corners really help you from a matchup standpoint.”


On how much a guy can move up on the board with a strong Senior Bowl performance: “What I’ve always told our guys is it enhances more than it hurts. So if a guy stinks it up, if his tape’s good, I’m not gonna kill him on it. But if he all of a sudden ascends and plays great, then we’re gonna go back — if we have a low grade on him — we’re gonna go back and rewatch the tape again, and we’re gonna see if we see what we see and saw in here. If we don’t find it, then he’s usually gonna stay at the level we have him at. If we find it, then he’ll move up.”


On where a guy like Tyquan Lewis fits in: “We’re gonna play him at the three (technique); that’s where we’re gonna play him, and we’re going to try to let him develop. If depth purposes happen we can always kick him back out to end, but we want to develop him as a three technique. That’s what we (the Chicago Bears) did with Henry (Melton). Henry, it really wasn’t until Year 3, Henry Melton, that we made him a full-time three. We’re going to take Tyquan and (Denico) Autry and let them battle it out. I think Jihad (Ward), too, will get some snaps in there, too. It’ll be a fun group to watch compete it out this spring and during camp.”


On feeling good about the defensive tackle position: “You’ve got (Denico) Autry and (Margus) Hunt, you’ve got Tyquan (Lewis), (Jihard) Ward, (Grover) Stewart. All that have played football and played good football last year — I mean really good football. I mean, Autry had nine sacks, for a D-tackle. … We think out of the combination of that group, and Lewis has got flexibility to play end, Hunt’s got flexibility to play end, Autry has flexibility to play end, so you’ve got enough flexibility to move some of those guys, and then if ‘Flus (Matt Eberflus) ever wants to get — let’s say we want to play bigger football, I mean, he can do it. All of a sudden he can look up and see a bigger front out there and play. You don’t just have to get locked into one way. Like, they’re all athletes, they all got good speed.”


If there’s a worry with just one 300-pounder along the defensive line: “No. I would tell you last year, when defensively everyone was worried, we played the six best running backs in the league and held them all down. And against really good teams that could really run the football, and (Denico) Autry was our three-technique, (Margus) Hunt was our nose, some games (Tyquan) Lewis was an end, (Jabaal) Sheard … so, no. I think we’ll be OK there. The way we play, ‘cause we’re so into those gaps so fast, and then our backers just fit off of it, if people get to where they’re just so heavy on us, then they’re just gonna let these guys run free. What happens is in this zone scheme, man, they usually work off — that’s why you want those athletes to be able to stay in the gaps and be athletic to do it. (Grover) Stewart’s the biggest body, but it is nice to have one and know, if you ever get the nose … last year the only extra guy we had was (Al) Woods.”


On if that means there’s a lot of defensive tackle types that just aren’t a scheme fit for the Colts in the draft? “Yeah. Yeah.”


On why defense was priority No. 1 in this year’s draft: “I mean, look, really there was one player to build around two years ago (on defense) and it was (Clayton) Geathers. And that’s it. There was not another player defensively here. It was an older defense that needed a complete rehaul. I mean, it it just did. And first year, our starting linebackers were (Antonio) Morrison and (Jon) Bostic, Jeremiah George. The front was (Jonathan) Hankins, it was (Henry) Anderson — good players; just not a great fit for what we wanted to do — and (Al) Woods. But, thinking that, really the only ones that — remember, we had to go onto free agency and on the street to start just hammering in — and then the secondary, that was the claim; we claimed Kenny Moore and (Pierre) Desir. So it was a complete redo on defense.”


On how long it took Ballard to realize how much work he had to do on the defense when he took the Colts’ GM job: “Oh, I knew Day 1. … You just have to patient to get it built up. And ‘Flus (Matt Eberflus), ‘Flus and the defensive staff did a freaking incredible job of coaching and buying into young players and playing them. In this scheme, with the effort that you have to play with in this scheme, I mean, it’s hard to bring free agents in and buy into it. And there’s an accountability to it in that room where if you’re loafing or you’re not running to the football, he’s just not gonna play you. I mean, if you don’t buy in to the scheme and to the effort that it takes to play this scheme, then you’re just not gonna be here at the end of the day.”


On Matt Eberflus’ “loafs” statistic and how seriously he takes it: “You know, and the great thing about the way Matt does it is they’re all in a room together and they’re watching the tape and they grade each play: ‘Loaf 56 … Loaf (57)….’ Oh no, it’s a humbling experience for all of ‘em. I mean, they get stung a little bit. They get do it in practice, now: ‘That’s a loaf, dude. That’s two loafs on one play.’ But it was funny to watch that first Cincinnati game, and then go and flip to the Washington game how they played freaking hard. That’s why the numbers … that’s why the athletic ability and the speed and the character and the effort, it’s hard for a dog to walk in the building and play here. I mean, you’re not changing — I don’t give a crap how talented they are — they will not play, they can’t withstand the damn pressure that’s day-to-day of what it takes to play in this (scheme); they can’t withstand it. And it’s great when you have a bunch of great players on defense, but when you don’t the one thing that you can (control): effort can help you survice.”


On where else Ballard sees the kind of effort the Colts play with defensively: “Dallas. Dallas you see it. They play hard; they play really hard. Sound.”


On how Ballard’s view of selecting prospects with good character has evolved: “With the character aspect of it, you asked me the question of what’s changed, maturity, yes, but also probably a little wisdom along the way, when you get a team that has a team of really good guys that work, love football, are smart, they solve problems better. They just do; they solve problems, they figure things out when things aren’t going well. I’d like to sit here and tell y’all I’ve been perfect through my (evaluations); I know that’s not reality. We’ll take some swings every once in a while.”


On if the 2018 season re-affirmed that character approach for Ballard: “Yeah. Yeah.”


On how there’s more to character than legal issues: “So it’s football character — we separate it — football character, which is how is he going to be in the building, what’s his love for the game, how’s he gonna work, what’s his football intelligence, what’s his passion, how does he deal with injuries? All of the things we go through of how we’re going to handle him in the building, alright? Then you’ve got to put in the personal character of, alright, how’s this guy gonna represent our organization and our city? That’s where that big ‘ol apple will sit out there, and you’ve gotta be careful (with) the ones you bite. We’ve gotta be damn right when we take a shot. You can’t be wrong when you take a shot on a guy that’s got some issues, and, I mean, look: y’all have followed my career. I’ve definitely been a part of taking some shots. I think I can save everybody. … And we try; I mean, we want to do everything we can to help these guys become better men. I think that’s part of our job, too; not only winning games, but making them better men and (giving them) help when they’re here. And I wish they were all perfect, but we have to weigh the circumstances of what happened, why did it happen? The things that’s really interesting nowadays is when you dig into the family backgrounds — where kids are coming from, the issues they’ve had to deal with — and then how does that travel with them and can we get them help with that? There’s just a lot of tangled webs, man, that you’ve got to dig through on the personal side. What do they have? Time and money. They have a lot time on their hands and they’ve got money now. And they’ve got a ton of freaking people grabbing at ‘em. All that stuff’s gotta be managed. I just think back to when I was 21, 22 years old.”


On the role that versatility and intelligence plays in prospects on the Colts’ board: “The one thing I’ve really grown over the years is guys with versatility; that can play multiple roles, especially when you get into gameday. ‘Cause bad things happen on gameday and you’ve got to be able to react to them, and then the smart guys, the intelligent guys can do a lot of different things for you on gameday. They give you a lot of comfort knowing that if something happens, they’re not gonna panic, and they’re smart enough to handle the role that you put him in. And it might be one that they’re not ready for, but they’ve paid enough attention, and in an emergency situation they’ve been asked to play it and get through.”


On how that versatility helps defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus disguise various schemes: “Yeah. It helps. I mean, a lot of our defense, because it is simple, is in the disguise. That’s an important element of it. So when you have versatile pieces on defense, it allows you disguise even more. I’ll give ‘Flus a lot of credit, man.”


On how the Colts measure intelligence in prospects: “We’ve got things to test to measure (intelligence), just to see what they can process. So, like, when we’re at the Combine, we don’t ask any questions in terms of who they are — no. We go directly to the board and we put on their tape and we start asking, ‘Alright, 15 minutes, I want to see how fast you can think.’ And we’ll have 20 clips: ‘Give me this play. What are you looking at? What are you thinking? What’s the call? What’s the adjustment?’ And it’s interesting to see guys that can freaking recall it like that. And some of them will just walk in the room and see (the film up), they’ll start saying, ‘Oh, we were in stack three,’ they’ll start ripping it off; and then there’s others, they’ll stare at the tape. You just wonder how fast their mind works. So when that happens … like, I always tell our guys, ‘Alright, let’s don’t completely put the dagger in him after a bad 15-minute session. Let’s go dig into his mind again.’ And then if we have more questions about it, we’ll send a coach to go see him and spend time with their staff to ask exactly what he’s doing, and then what we can put on his plate. And then we’ll test him; we’ll send him stuff and test him and say, ‘Memorize this. Here’s some plays; you memorize this. What can you recall for us?’ You can get a good feel for it. But there’s some testing with (Brian) Decker we’re doing — Brian’s really good digging into the intelligence aspect of it. Everybody just says, ‘It’s football.’ Man, I just think smart guys will play; they can play for a long time.”


On if Ballard can get a pretty good feeling on a player’s intelligence: “Yeah. I get a pretty good feeling at the Combine. … Like Anthony Walker, when we met him, it was unbelievable. I mean, he ripped off every call, adjustment, what people were doing, if this circumstances happened. I said, ‘Holy crap, this guy could run a defense quick.’ And he did. I mean, it took him a year, but once he got settled in. The smart guys get it. Then when they’ve got talent, too … .”